Net Neutrality – A Dialog (part 1)

Nato: So I’ve decided that I’m opposed to legislating net neutrality.

I think that telcos that start instituting non-net neutral policies should be subjected to the backlash that the market will provide.

Jason: I am beginning to feel that the market doesn’t provide sufficient backlash… people are too willing to take it, and the market is a difficult one to get into.

Nato: being a network provider, you mean?

you have to consider: the clients who are not the ones who are going to purchase non net-neutral services, that is, the ones who are going to provide the backlash, are corporate clients.

Jason: they have to provide sufficient disincentive to make it not worth it

I don’t think they’ll do it

it’s a prisoner problem

and we know how people respond to that

Nato: if there is a telco that provides net neutral services

at a reasonable rate

and another that does not

then there is no way that microsoft (for example) would purchase from the second provider

or google

or pbwiki

Jason: nah nah… you’re missing the point… if they break net neutrality, data passing through the network is subject to the problem

not just end stuff

so only the big players are important

google will have to provide a kickback to att just to pass through thier network

and those that do… they’ll get better throughput

see how it’s a prisoner problem… the companies will break

Nato: you’re missing my point

if att clients get crappy access to any particular website

then they’ll move to sprint

or comcast

Jason: you’re missing my point: it doesn’t matter what company you use.

you pass through sprint or att…

because they are the backbone of the itnernet

look at a map of how the tier 1 works

it’s all corporate run

by top corporations

Nato: do you think that large companies would pay for better access?

like

would google pay ATT?

Jason: fuck yeah… because microsoft sure is

Nato: if I were them, I’d look at it as a shakedown

Jason: and if people can’t get to google they’ll do microsoft

Nato: ah

Jason: it is a shakedown

Nato: I see what you mean by it being the prisoner dilmma

Jason: yup

everybody agreeing to not pay will work

Nato: what about anonymization services?

Jason: they still have to have a destination…

otherwise how will it get there?

Maybe you could hide the destination in the packet and make a router that was more aware

but again distribution is the problem

Nato: hang on

given the way that networks work

if ATT reduces throughput

through their networks

of MS traffic

(for example)

then the traffic will instead go around.

The internet sees censorship as an outage and routes around it

if all the providers colluded

then it would be a problem

but then they’re all trapped in the prisoner dillema

’cause if one of them starts to let a little more traffic through

then they get the revenue from being the provider

Jason: it’s not all the providers… I’m telling you I’ve seen the map it’s only like 3 that can get you from one side of the us to the other

and imagine getting to japan

or russia

Nato: its like opec

again

providers make money by providing access

if google doesn’t pay ATT’s rates

and their traffic gets slowed down through ATT’s networks

but sprints through the other networks

then they other networks are making more money

assuming they charge by the GB

Jason: then you get balkanization of the internet.. whomever pays who will determine where you can get to from any particular provider

imagine getting sprint service and not getting google but you get microsoft

and then you switch to att and you can get to google but now you can’t get to any of the little sites you want to

Nato: I’m saying that that’s bad for sprint

and ATT

they don’t get as much money.

Jason: only if they don’t hold the reins… only if there’s another option… and I don’t think there is

Nato: from a corporate perspective, it would be a terrible move.

they charge by the GB

right?

if they’re denying traffic

then they’re turning away customers

Jason: no… the person who google buys service from get’s payed per gb

all the users (us) pay a flat rate

and anybody just passing through pays them nothing

Nato: wait

so ATT right now

is providing the transport service

for free?

Jason: yup

because that’s how the internet works

Nato: and you want to tell them they legally can’t charge for that service?

Jason: well if they do the internet becomes just a large corporation playgrount

Nato: no it doesn’t

Jason: and it’s pretty much useless as a free avenue

Nato: it’s in their interest to keep the rates as low as possible

Jason: yes it does… you can’t pay what you need to to put data out

Nato: if they’re providing a free service

Jason: no it isn’t… it’s in there interest to keep them average

not low

you know how that works… a band pass filter market pressure determines who can broadcast on the internet

Nato: okay

the point is that there are costs

that are not being borne by the ones who are causing those costs.

they’re being borne by everyone else.

Jason: ok… so here’s a scenario imagining nice telcos… they see that the internet has value because of the data on it… so they make it cheap to broadcast… not free so sites like craigslist youtube… twitter… all die

but it’s pretty cheap so most of those can turn to a paying system

Nato: wait

what?

Jason: they’re dead… they don’t make money

or at least not enough

they make advertising money but don’t forget advertisers have to pay to get their content out too…

the internet is not cheap to broadcast anymore

limiting the broadcasters… so analog websites (like analog stations) can’t do things cheap

only corporate stations will get it done

to be in the market right?

Corporate stations / websites only will be able to access the internet

they can drop out

or make their own market

but the internet is useful because of it’s content

Nato: right now

the telcos are forced by law to bear those costs

if the telcos kill the internet

then they will die

Jason: it’s not going to die… just become much less useful

you can still go to watch your NBC shows

or to search ebay

This discussion is continued here:

http://humanegg.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/net-neutrality-a-dialog-part-2/